Mosler knows!
Thayer knew!
Ruml knew!
Jim Lacey apparently knows, and so did a couple of economists that helped the USA prosecute and win WW2: Robert Nathan and Simon Kuznets.
Keep from All Thoughtful Men: How U.S. Economists Won World War II
I got to page 34.
“Orthodox economic thinking at the beginning of World War II held that taxes should finance wars on a pay-as-you-go basis.”
A fascinating book about what looks to be how MMT won the War. I’m still reading.
And I’m betting that we didn’t need to use all of Great Britain’s gold that they shipped to New York at the start of the war….
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I have always challenged those with more conventional thought just what they think would happen if the US had to enter a full out major war. Who would not get paid when we run out of money?
And similarly, I ask my Texas secessionist friends what currency will they be using?
@Hoonose,
“And similarly, I ask my Texas secessionist friends what currency will they be using?”
Yep.
I examine that at my place
http://gbgasser.blogspot.com/
@Greg, “to keep your own currency viable some form of gentle coercion (no 9mm necessary hopefully) thru taxation would be necessary. ”
You lose, mosler himself is pointing a big gun at your head, and will blow it clean off, if you don’t play ball and let his football/bowling alley friends keep score over you.
I sat in Richard Lee’s marijuana class at his oaksterdam university asking him why not break california off from the union? Along with the lawyer who took marijuana cases to the supreme court. They said it was not possible. I said but all the girls here operate on a weed economy, all I need is weed to get everything I want out of them, money is worthless. (some hookers said if I didn’t have some oxy pills, I was less than zero, talk about commodity money! The time it would take for them to take my greenbacks and go buy oxy pills was too much, they only dealt with clients who had the pills right then and there?!) He laughed and said its just not possible. A few months later they arrested richard lee and shut down oaksterdam. He was well read about the founding fathers though and I was intrigued how this flippant pothead was still convinced there was absolutely no way for california to succeed from the union.
Since Paul Ryan can pull from works of fiction and be taken seriously by our sheeple, I can too:
The moon is a harsh mistress from Heinlein, put the candidates with the least number of votes into office 😉 Luna had to have a supercomputer and weapons of mass destruction to have freedom, rickards says lots of military forces are amassing against Iran to ensure they don’t break free.
Arnold Kling (author of 250 states brief) has decided it is better to have an EXIT out of society, than to have a VOICE in that society, and has retired from the blogosphere, but you dear citizen, if you try to go to banks outside of the USA, as a USA citizen, they don’t want you in thier society, Warren Mosler and his big IRS gun has made them all reject you, you have no where to EXIT too. You are a slave, a loser, Richard Lee himself, modern day pot farmer, told me so to my face.
@Greg, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nBiJB8YuDBQ
Greg, the whole video is good, but about 41 minutes in, the well meaning prosecutor says literally to the hookers “I would compromise your freedom to protect the majority of women” Stossel shows how they will lock every citizen up in the USA in prison or a prison police state, to make sure we all aren’t harmed. long CCA, private prisons and drones.
@Save America, Ah, protection! It’s why the shepherd needs the wolf. “Protection” is a racket. Being tied down or locked up just isn’t attractive to mobile creatures.
So why do humans put animals, including themselves, in cages? It makes them easy to find again as we make our rounds.
Monica, Ron Paul did say at his speech today that we are all like cows being fattened for slaughter, and that we should audit the fed and the pentagon. I think the prosecutor is correct, many of these women will descend into a world of drugs and crime. Ron Paul said that is the cost, we must have a society where people can fail and hurt themselves. As milton friedman said before him, we cannot legislate morality, but everything is illegal. Too bad Paul thinks a gold standard can fix what is really wrong.
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/discount-rate-banks-0-discount-rate-rest-us-400-everything-else-theres-taxpayercard
Here is a Herb Greenberg/CNBC hit piece on “evil” payday lenders. At the end of the interview, they know they have been shown up by the fact filled loan shark and try to make concessions.
Here is how the protection “racket” worked with the politicians with which I was involved. As the banks began to change policy, new fees, charges, interest rates began to approach 1000-4000% APR when viewed the same way as they were viewing the payday loans. As one of the comments in the above article shows, the woman with 99 dollars in her bank account was originally loaned 2 dollars for a 101 dollar bounced check and charged interest on the 2 dollars, but then the bank started loaning the entire 101 dollars and charge interest on that (one of millions of examples of bankster tricks)
So as the advance america loan shark above says, the “FREE MARKET” made a choice, it was cheaper for them to go see the payday lender loan shark than use the more expensive services of the bank. Real lives were affected by this free market choice, veterans needing medicine, mothers needing baby food, etc.
In several states we had politician after politician say yes, we know our constituents say they want free choices, yes we know new bank fees/rules are hurtful, yes “protective” laws are really going to hurt my voters, etc etc, but in the end, it was always the same problem, the banksters paid big money to the politicians campaigns. Senator Franken, the comedian, was the only one who seemed to take a stand for the free market, but then he had been heavily subsidized by the loan sharks – LOL!
Admirals and Generals were brought into top secret policy briefings saying how loan sharks were hurting our war effort because soldiers couldn’t focus on fighting they had so much debt! New laws were enacted all over the USA. To save the soldiers and everyone else, free market choices were eliminated and the banksters got the government to send them all those billions where they make 1000%-4000% apr through various services, fees, charges, interest etc etc
The politicians didn’t care to hear from veterans or single mothers how removing thier free market choices was going to cost them MORE.
@Greg,
Thanks, I’ll have a look see….
12 Year Old Canadian Girl talks about Grandpa of MMT, McGeer, and how the Bank of Canada has been corrupted, you should personally start taking her with you to italy and other places Warren…. She is smarter on MMT memes than you are. She is able to grasp that the money system is here to serve the people, 99% of our bankers and politicians should be ashamed they have been upstaged by this 12 year old….
Russia Today interviews MMT McGeer Granddaughter, she says if we don’t fix the financial system and go MMT, people will only get 1 meal a day if that, global starvation, Warren, 12 year old is making you look bad…. Took you 40 years, conferences, bond trading on the global system, she just had to read a couple McGeer books
@Save America,
SA, complaints & infighting don’t help. The only rational thing to do, ever, is to make yet another suggestion – after serious reflection.
Tried to elaborate on these issues in another post, too long for a short comment here.
http://mikenormaneconomics.blogspot.com/2012/08/keep-from-all-thoughtful-men-how-us.html
Last comment progresses from speed of distributing needed perspectives to the methods for interleaving cultural exploration and cultural adjustments.
All roads lead back to adequately motivating and “exercising” available citizenry. An over-challenged/adequately provisioned society is a happy populace, but an inadequately provisioned society is a dying culture.
http://mikenormaneconomics.blogspot.com/2012/08/return-on-coordination.html
For those interested in the history of war finance, this is great:
http://fraser.stlouisfed.org/docs/publications/books/1869histlegaltender/historyoflegaltender_toc.pdf
Written buy the guy who sponsored the fiat money law Lincoln fought the Civil War with and made up mostly of transcripts of the congressional debate it is a whole world of “plus ca change, plus c’est la mem chose”>
@jsn,
Warren, this blog desperately needs an indexing & search function. I remember this link, plus all the McGeer ones, coming up & being re-discovered ~once per year in either your blogs or the comments.
The changing choir is getting bogged down rediscovering things it sang to itself last year! 🙂
Isn’t that a microcosm of what we spend much of our time discussing? Please bite the bullet & get a cost estimate for significantly upgrading the blog. Then post the cost here so diverse readers can contribute to that valuable service.
@roger erickson, Roger, zinn said to do for yourself, and stop looking for the government, obama, mosler, or mike norman to do for you.
So in that spirit, why do you not have your OWN MMT blog with all these links and videos posted? I am lazy, I would love to go somewhere and watch lots of MMT videos or listen to audio. You are not lazy like me, so what is the problem?
I don’t know the circles you travel in Roger, but the ones I travel in, Mike Norman, no matter what message he delivers, will ever be listened too, so you are already setting up obstacles to yourself getting under the wing of that guy.
The MMT wiki guy said he needs help, but should you throw your lot in under mosler or norman?
http://mmtwiki.org/wiki/History_of_MMT
I ‘created’ what became know as ‘MMT’ entirely independently of prior economic thought. It came from my direct experience in actual monetary operations, much of which is also described in the book
That is what Mosler says, but a search of McGeer at that site and NADA, so I already throw that site into the dustbin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_Monetary_Theory Lets go here, they don’t give Mosler huge historical credit for MMT but do cite him as one of many in a rebirth, and they say Katsari argues it is a 2000 year old idea. But no McGeer there either. At least they do offer the “critical thinker”
the other side of the fair and balanced debate no?
@roger erickson, http://mises.org/daily/5260/The-UpsideDown-World-of-MMT
Many people have tried to get the masses to do what is best for them, but you are trying to herd cats. Kling said it is not possible to make the needed changes. So hickey said the elites will blow up society, and after the collapse, then we can rebuild. Most people I know don’t care about learning history, or economics, and no matter how frustrated you get and provide them all the water to drink, they will not drink it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sghyDCzIqMk&feature=related Chris Hedges was talking to some princeton professors, and they were all so happy how they were going to bring women’s rights to afghanistan, and he looked at these academics and said we are about to unleash death with hellfire missles, how you guys can talk human rights in this context, makes no sense.
Roger, there is an anonymous movement on this planet, where position, title, status, academic funding, etc are not considered. Why don’t you create a place where people can come and talk and share MMT ideas, not attached to thier identities, so there is no ego or portfolio to bruise?
In that place, even a hated mike norman could come and offer and exchange ideas and not have his history work against him. In that place warren mosler could come and exchange ideas and not have to be threatened when a mcgeer text the pre-dated him by 100 years threatens his life’s work.
You remain in the land of identity, status, ego, money, recognition, break free, join the matrix neo, where ideas alone stand on thier merit. Or do you really want REAL change? And the band played on…
@Save America,
Economist Appearing On Max Keiser Show Forced To Resign
(for dissing von Miser)
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jonmatonis/2012/08/26/economist-appearing-on-max-keiser-show-forced-to-resign/
after dutiful “calculation,” of course;
plus, see “Rescuing Menger from the Austrians”
http://socialdemocracy21stcentury.blogspot.com/2012/08/rescuing-menger-from-austrians.html
@roger erickson, http://mises.org/daily/5260/The-UpsideDown-World-of-MMT
Many people have tried to get the masses to do what is best for them, but you are trying to herd cats. Kling said it is not possible to make the needed changes. So hickey said the elites will blow up society, and after the collapse, then we can rebuild. Most people I know don’t care about learning history, or economics, and no matter how frustrated you get and provide them all the water to drink, they will not drink it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sghyDCzIqMk&feature=related Chris Hedges was talking to some princeton professors, and they were all so happy how they were going to bring women’s rights to afghanistan, and he looked at these academics and said we are about to unleash death with hellfire missles, how you guys can talk human rights in this context, makes no sense.
Roger, there is an anonymous movement on this planet, where position, title, status, academic funding, etc are not considered. Why don’t you create a place where people can come and talk and share MMT ideas, not attached to thier identities, so there is no ego or portfolio to bruise?
In that place, even a hated mike norman could come and offer and exchange ideas and not have his history work against him. In that place warren mosler could come and exchange ideas and not have to be threatened when a mcgeer text the pre-dated him by 100 years threatens his life’s work.
You remain in the land of identity, status, ego, money, recognition, break free, join the matrix neo, where ideas alone stand on thier merit. Or do you really want REAL change? And the band played on…
On topic with exploring optional marketing methods … is this a brilliant ad?
@roger erickson,
and this is the way to describe Luddite views
@roger erickson,
Cute, although the ending is not happy. Now Mr W is killing birds and wasting economic resources, in addition to mussing people’s hair.
@ESM,
Yes, but the METHOD was productive. Keep that in mind, because in real operations, wishful thinking establishes goals, but METHODS DRIVE RESULTS.